art,  contemporary art,  modern art

Interview with Slaven Gabric by Mark M. Whelan

“So long as men die, liberty will never perish” – Charlie Chaplin

Every single thing is an homage to everything in the world; even things that haven’t happened yet. In all the intricacy’s of our humanity, there is one thing which binds us together; our mortality. Now, this is not to get all gloomy on the subject. At the same time, it’s not to say that death is actually really groovy and fun-filled. Rather, this is to celebrate the unexpected, the poetic and the absurd creations found in the graveyards where we pay our own homage to friends and loved ones past. 

The meaning of life and death can appear at times to be too vast a consideration. Something so immeasurably deep that it becomes hidden by virtue of its own size. It is perhaps easy, to leave such thought to those who might seem to have the time to think on it: Billionaires, hermits and (perhaps) students. Yet this is not the case. The human mind processes 70,000 thoughts a day (a thought every two heart beats). No matter how hectic our schedule, our thoughts turn over themselves, bonding with others and forming beautiful patterns and correlations. Free thought can never truly be taken from us, and it is vital that on the topics that affect us all, we have a medium or platform to express ourselves equally.

In the impossibly fast-paced world which increases in speed by the second, one of the few times people seem to allow themselves to slow down is in the presence of death. In graveyards, people are presented the opportunity to express their thoughts on the matter. In chiselled stone and marble, one may write a poem, or a phrase; some expression of thought on a lifetime that can finally be formed in a material which has more essence of permanence than the illusive material of thoughts within the mind. 

Perhaps we need something to trigger thought, trigger the silence needed to respect thought and allow it to grow. I posit, that perhaps mediums of art can provide such a trigger. Therefore, perhaps we can pay homage to the photographer and artist Slaven Gabric, who has collected an abundance of insightful and powerful images found within cemeteries; the place where can pay homage to loved ones, poetry, society, humanity, death, love, life and thought.
It is an honour to introduce this detailed interview. 


What first made you photograph a cemetery? And what did you expect to find in doing so?
I didn’t have many expectations other than to find a peaceful and somewhat special place to take some beautiful photographs.
Empty spaces and unpopulated areas were always my first choice locations. I kept visiting local cemeteries in Serbia. They were calm and serene, and seemed to be the perfect choice.
I’ve always been drawn to the solemn places with no one around as I felt a bit uncomfortable taking pictures of people. Especially if they’re aware of my presence.
Unexpectedly, the project developed into quite a complex and detailed exploration and started to include many conscious also intuitive decisions while shooting.
This project lasted couple of years and became one of my first long term ones.
In the introduction you give to ‘Cemetery Short Cuts’ you mention “the struggle to make sense of the relationship between life and death” ; can we ever make sense of this relationship?
If we could find the answer to why the death or the process of dying is justified, we’d be a step closer in making more sense of this relationship. For example, why an innocent person or a child or an animal have to die or suffer in the process of dying for no apparent reason.
Whether this is possible to answer is another matter.
If nothing else we are certainly allowed to freely search and ask questions.
It felt in a way nice to ponder more about it while walking through those beautiful cemeteries. It was like I found something. What it was, I really don’t know, but in a away, it felt that simply being aware of the issue was already enough to find the answer.
Your collection, as an exploration through a cemetery, brings with it many surprises which often amuse; the Homer Simpson figurine beneath the phrase “Almighty God” for example. Is there a sense of absurdity which surrounds death? Is there a sense that death is something we cannot help but laugh at (or else we might cry)?


 It’s not death that is absurd; it is rather life, or some experiences in life. In our perception of death, confronted with the misty, vague, ethereal and unknown, combined with the fact that we know so little about death only helps absurdities grow.
In this case to laugh doesn’t mean “to mock”. To laugh means to confront, ease the pain, give a new meaning or to heal.
This series is a collection of many absurd and not so absurd observations, photographically tailored to fit the frame that I thought best represents the story about curious tastes of bitter sweet opposites.
We can do as we please – cry or laugh or even both at the same time.
There is the strong pervading sense of the ‘tragi-comic’ in your collection. So many of Shakespeare’s tragedies could easily become comedies and vice-versa. Your work captures the delicate balance between the two. Yet how do we tread this fine-line between tragedy and comedy?
The reason Shakespeare’s tragedies easily become comedies and vise-versa is because they touch the universal and resonate those frequencies.
We are best set to rely on intuition to sense and confront our inner complexities, and by doing so ease the confusion in threading between the two extremes.
The use of mirror images is used frequently in your work; as are moments of contrast – for example between darker and lighter shades – do you believe that there is a mirror image to everything? Is this world always a ‘world of opposites’?
What role does juxtaposition play in art and, indeed, in life?
It is not that this world is only the world of the opposites it is just that is often best represented through those juxtapositions. Take, for example, this very second of my life and lets imagine I feel quite good and am quite safe, cozy and calm while writing at this moment.
I can safely say that life is going well for me at least for the next few seconds.
In those few seconds elsewhere in the world, or even in my neighborhood I can also safely say that someone is going through hell and it’s their worst time in their life. Someone’s getting tortured, raped, killed or suffering for whatever reason.
It can be a human, an animal, an insect, a plant, anything alive that feels pain.
No matter what we do and how we feel there’s this opposite side at every single moment of our existence. Awareness of its existence strengthens the connection between the two so the mirror reflection becomes visible on this side.
The prominence of words in your piece uncovers poetry, philosophy and hidden meanings.  Yet these words are intrinsically part of the photograph which captures them. Images and words read differently, they may not fuse, but they co-exist. Do you think there is a disjunction between word and image? What do you make of the relationship between what is written and what is seen?

The interplay between a text and a background always attracts my attention.
It could be because text can seem so abstract when observed as part of a visual context. It looses its real meaning and it can easily transform itself in many different forms. Basically it becomes much more flexible and ambiguous. I quite like to use its chameleonic features.

Text can appear to be on the opposite side to the rest of the story but at the same time nicely melts with it. If not used carefully, combining words and image can make work become stiff or too obvious.
The photo capturing the phrase “we love to die” is fantastically haunting. The words oxymoronic and at first strikes a feeling being polar-opposite to what we feel – conjuring the thought ‘surely one does not love dying?’ However after a moment, the thought sinks into our mind and body and suddenly one sees the beauty of it. Your images capture how much beauty there is in a graveyard; beautiful poetry, beautiful sculpture, beautiful flowers. Read almost any Romantic poet and you’ll see love and beauty linked together. Perhaps then, with beauty all around a site of death there is a great deal of love there also? Do we love to die?

On a lovely sunny day I went to visit the London’s Ladywell cemetery. I was quite lost that day pondering how to solve some serious issues that I had at the time. I spent quite a while roaming around not taking many photographs, actually mostly thinking what am I to do with things that bothered me. I saw a man standing by one grave, probably paying a visit to some of his dear ones that were buried there. I didn’t want to disturb him with my presence especially as I had my bulky medium format camera with a huge lens, which rarely goes unnoticed. I went further away.
After about half an hour, I suddenly saw him coming the opposite direction towards me. I couldn’t avoid the encounter. Once he got close to me he politely asked what am I doing around here? He seemed nice and I briefly explained about my project. The conversation pleasantly took off and he kindly offered to show me one thing he thought I would be interested in.
By arriving to the spot I saw the grave with few verses of a poem carved into a stone.
    They are not long, the days of wine and roses:
    Out of a misty dream
    Our path emerges for a while, then closes
    Within a dream.
I was speechless as the analogy was perfectly connected to my project also to me they were the most beautiful and meaningful verses I read in a long time. It was the grave of Ernest Christopher Dowson. A Romantic poet that I had never heard of before. On that day all the worries were gone and I found a magical love and a beauty at the cemetery and I didn’t love to die.
:
They are not long, the weeping and the laughter,
Love and desire and hate:
I think they have no portion in us after
We pass the gate.

They are not long, the days of wine and roses:
Out of a misty dream
Our path emerges for a while, then closes
Within a dream.

Did you set out to find beauty in death? Or did you find it working on your project?
I did set out to find beauty but didn’t expect to find it in death.
As I mentioned in the first question, I was only looking for a peaceful and somewhat special place so I could make some beautiful photographs.
 It turned out that in the cemetery, I uncovered a whole range of beautiful aspects that are camouflaged only by our prejudices and fears. What I found certainly seemed beautiful to me.
                                        
Is everything a pursuit of truth?
Well, eating bananas or sandwiches doesn’t seem to be the way to search for the truth, but from my point of view you can experience the most profound moments while doing the most trivial things.
 It very much depends of the state of your mind and the level of awareness about how the things connect and exchange.
Art, for example, can be some kind of a trigger or a great tool that helps set someone’s state of mind within the realms of unknown, where the truth in a strange way makes more sense than in the real world.
Can anything be a “photo in a frame”? 
If the photographer photographing someone who is also taking a photograph can be a photo in a frame then I guess anything can be a photo in a frame.
Soon as you start thinking, you are unconsciously framing something, meaning that you’re squeezing the outer information so it better fits your known world within.
You are yourself a framer and it is easier for you to deal with information once they are placed inside the borders and the limits of your experience.
Your initial thought is the ultimate frame.
Which artists inspire you?
I of course immensely enjoy many different artists, and from time to time some of their work can trigger a new thought or an interesting idea that can boost my drive and will to work.
I find work of younger generations of contemporary artists equally inspiring as someone already well established.
Julian Wakelin , Philip Miner  abstract oils , Marko Maetamm, Antti Laitinen currently represented by Nettie Horn, Sean Edwards at Limoncello, Andrew Curtis at Pyne Shurvell, Carla Busuttil at Fold Gallery, Brad Moore, Paula Mccartney at Klompching, also the other generation like Claes Oldenburg, Bruce Naumann, Richard Long or further back like Van Gogh, Goya, … all the way to the Cave art .
I could probably spend many days in pointing out the work and artists that I enjoy and still I don’t think I’d be close to finishing.
  
The chilling words found in the photograph ‘I am not here’ – both reminds us that the living soul which the grave commemorates has vanished, and so too over time will the physical remains…what is your approach as a photographer; what is your presence in the frame? ‘Are you there’ in each photo?
I must be there.
The photograph is the product of a personal idea or an emotion that was triggered from a certain experience, which is later translated to the visual story.
The process of how that story was translated is somewhat complex and not necessarily visually palpable but the energy and idea that the work of art is emitting is there, and must be present.
It’s only that occasionally you could see and feel more obviously many of my inner disturbances and what’s drawing my attention. Other times they are just so complexly tangled up with work that you need to rely on intuition and let yourself dive deeper to explore and see what can’t immediately be seen.
Your picture ‘Reversed’. Flipping the word ‘reserved’ not only once again evokes mirror imagery, it also draws our attention to the concept that we must all reserve our place in the cemetery. With this in mind, would you say that we our fated?
If we take the raw facts about this world and stiffly stick to them, then yes we are certainly fated, as how the situation stands right now we’re all going to die at some point.
Good thing is that we have the ability not to think about it all the time and can therefore fully enjoy the given life from time to time.
On the other hand, you often come across little reminders about the fragility and the ephemerality of life.
It is unbelievably absurd that one has to reserve the place on the cemetery while still alive.
In fact it is so absurd and abstract that it becomes funny. 
Just imagine the situation when you get personally there and tell the guy ‘over the counter ‘ – “Could you please reserve one parcel of the ground for me so I can be buried here when I die”.
I mean, what is this?! Who created life as it is?  Were there any other options when all this was created?
I can only guess that the awareness and exploration of an untouchable dimension through artistic medium evokes those mirror imageries.
In your opinion, what are “pure actions”?
This can mean many things.
“someone was acting in a sublime manner to achieve an erection” or
“someone has erected this gravestone with an honest effort”
(He, he), surely it’s not necessary to approach work in this manner,  although we can’t say it shouldn’t be approached this way.
The whole project shows the whole set of awkwardly absurd observations and creations of one’s mind, where one comes across or invents a situation even if it doesn’t really exist.
It was the challenge for me as a photographer to uncover and create not merely recording something in front of the camera.  At the same time following the main concept of a human emotion stranded in its tragic-comic existence.  This particular photograph was taken on a jewish cemetery in London where almost every gravestone inscription begins with these words “erected by” … this or that family or a person who helped in some way the erection of the gravestone.
The sun is a vital part in both your collection and certain pieces. What role does the sun play in your work as a whole?
We could call the Sun in my work “ the Sun from elsewhere “.
I can’t really see its role in a usual and obvious way.
It is either generic (as when the photographic flash reflection takes its role ) or only a reflection on the gravestone that steals identities.
Maybe, the Sun is a conveyor and a transmitter of the unknown and not quite understandable message.
Also, the Sun from another dimension, that one can invoke anytime, during the night or on an overcast day.
It’s the Sun that’s always magically at your disposal.
The examples of litter; coca cola bottles and empty Macdonald’s drinks found in the images. As consumers, it certainly seems we have such things “in our hearts” (A now well-known study demonstrated that even though people liked the taste of Pepsi more, they bought coke because they liked the brand name) – what was your reaction to seeing such commercial objects beside sites of death? Do you ever envisage that there may be a commercialization of death? Can death ever be a commodity?
The aesthetics and purpose of such objects doesn’t quite belong to that place, but people find them cheap, convenient and practical, so for those reasons they easily find their way into these places and add to the experience simply by their presence.
While sifting through cemeteries my thoughts tend to float out to a distance, not necessarily thinking about anything to do with death, but just I’m not totally present in that particular moment.
When I see some of those everyday consumer artifacts they pull me back to reality, also ambiguously interplay with graves and their surreal surrounding which I learned to observe.
Those objects were very useful to me in getting the balance right between the two juxtaposed dimensions.
Commercialization of death?
Hedge funds, pension funds, institutional endowments. You mention these three and I’m sure there’s so much profit in there, that many people’s heads would start spinning. These guys are much more creative than all the artists in the world together.
Those who run these can turn the real shit into gold and surely they turned death into commodity,  also commercialized it big time.
Wanna invest?
Do we require a change in perspective?
The change in perspective is always a healthy thing.
You can review your doings and adjust the wrong ones if needed.
As a society we desperately need it.
(Evian water bottles) The phrase “together forever” perhaps perfectly captures the relationship between humanity and death. Can one ever be separate from death? Is there such a thing as immortality? Or will death always “catch us up”?
The first thing that crossed my mind when I saw those Evian bottles lying together under the gravestone  was the Evian’s tv advert “Live Young”.
Babies swimming like in synchronized swimming dance and the voice at the end of the ad says   ” L’ EVIAN !”  in French, and immediately after it goes to its resembling pronunciation in English  ” LIVE YOUNG !” .
My mind immediately started playing the tragic-comic game of something being born and just freshly commencing life surrounded by the burden and heaviness of the obvious and in my face death facts. It’s only later that I saw the “Together forever …” phrase which just added to the story that created itself.
I don’t think our current mindset can completely grasp the notion of immortality which we  can compare it to the  notions of ENDLESS or EVERLASTING.
 We quickly get tangled up within our usual framework –  “the beginning” and “the end”.
In an effort to be able to get closer to the concept and understanding of something so large for us, we tend to squeeze that notion of immortality and fit it within the boundaries of our experience.
Soon after creating the usual two A and B points, the exploration ends.
In these situations, art comes to be really handy. It breaks those boundaries and they don’t matter any more.
Love, as an ultimate thing can also become useful when you want to experience a break from boundaries. Again, they somehow break and don’t matter any more but nevertheless don’t expect not to die. It still stays as an issue.
In your opinion, are we as a people generally ignorant of death, or wholly aware of it? Are we generally afraid to face death? Should we be?
We definitely are aware and at the same time ignorant of death. The ignorance has some kind of a defense role in our system. It helps us not put such a heavy burden and not overheat the brain by constantly thinking about it. Awareness, however, serves as an alarm and helps us keep the distance from trouble by using fear as a tool so we avoid dangerous situations in advance.
Both of these have their own purpose and getting the balance and understanding right between the two is crucial to our well-being on this planet. I tend to think about death quite a lot by trying to explore the whole issue through art, in an effort to feel and understand curious mechanisms of nature and apparently unjust systems that are driven only by their strength and selfishness of their aim and purpose. The more you explore and dive deeper to the issue you see how much death there is everywhere; and that every single move of yours brings the death to so many forms of life plants, animals, insects, microorganisms… Destruction does bring life and we are only a small part of that chain. How could we not be afraid of such a huge and unavoidable dark hole?
Is there a perfect photograph?
For a period of time I might feel I got the perfect one, but after a day, month or even years later I might feel it’s not perfect any more.
 Again, it can be that I could ultimately come back to the previous thought and actually think it’s perfect again.
The whole process is quite subjective and prone to changes. People tend to change over time as their experiences in life do. And this fact is pretty much connected to the perception of the particular artwork as well.
It would be the same as if asking the question: Is there a perfect moment in life ?
There is, but only for a moment.
In Georege Perec’s ‘La Disparation’ the question is asked ‘Why do you take photographs so constantly, so obsessively? and the reply returns ‘so that I’ll see what I’ve seen’. Why do you take photographs? What draws you to the form?
What’s been said here is so profound and true that this has become the answer to the question I was asking myself so many times.
Basically you enlightened me in a great way by pointing out on these words.
This is a great discovery for me.
 Art can certainly be like a window to your own soul, to your personality. If you try to self observe, it is often difficult to see.
I certainly began taking photographs purely because of a beauty and curiosity.
It’s only later that I started to experiment more and dig much deeper to the medium, or my soul maybe?!
How has your interest in art and photography developed as you have grown older?
I started off with drawing quite early on. In my primary education, I became more involved in sports and very soon I stopped doing any art. It started coming out again only when I was about 24 years old. I became interested in painting. It’s only when I enrolled the foundation course that it all took off. I was about 28 years old by then. I still feel it was quite late and that I was quite behind and chasing up for something, although there was some kind of maturity in me and it was nice knowing that I was ready for it. I started experimenting with all possible mediums and video and only became interested in photography in my second year of a BA painting course. The technicality of photography always put me off but somehow I managed to overcome it. From then on I’ve been mostly doing photography and still occasionally draw.
You have a drawing collection also, do you find your photography influences your drawings and vice-versa?
I used to draw and paint a lot more before and while at college. Those were my first mediums so the attraction to them still remains. I actually enrolled my BA course as a painter.
Nowadays drawing helps me getting the balance right when I come to the point that I have exhausted all possibilities and Ideas in photography for certain period of time.
Drawing is more physically and emotionally engaging and there’s a great pleasure coming out from that.
Both of those mediums are quite instant and it’s no wonder I chose them as my character is quite an impatient one. I guess I just tried to choose the ones that I feel most comfortable with. They don’t influence each other in an obvious and direct way but instead somehow compensate my ever-shifting impulses. This way I can deal with them in a more appropriate manner without making the work too stiff as a result of pushing and restricting the ideas only to one medium.
Do you have any future projects in the pipeline?
I certainly have.
It is very common for me to work on a couple of projects at the same time.
My focus tends to shift quickly from one project to another. The results can become slower this way, but suddenly I can end up with few projects finished all at a similar time.
I’m just bringing to a close the photographic series “Densities and Overgrowth”. It is already up on my website, although not completely finished. It’s quite a subtle straightforward series of a murky and low contrast 6×6  photographs of abandoned houses and sheds, photographed through the branches and overgrowth. I worked on it throughout the autumn and winter, when every single bush or tree branch is visible as there are no leaves on them. It’s giving the pictures a more painterly kind of feel. There’s a complex set of branches in front of the lens and shapes of the houses are barely visible. While my previous few projects were more conceptual and needed a bit more planning behind. In this one though I just let myself take pictures only relying on intuition; with no pressure at all.


Slaven’s ‘Cemetery Short Cuts’ can be found on his website here along with his many other works and projects. 




‘In the seventeenth chapter of Saint Luke it is written:
“The kingdom of God is within man”
Not one man, nor a group of men, but in all men; in you, the people. 
You the people have the power […] We are coming out of darkness into light.’ – Charlie Chaplain The Great Dictator


With thanks to Mark M. Whelan


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